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Brewer to Roaster..blower question...
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| freshbeans |
Posted on 08/15/2011 09:46
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Really nice machine! It'll probably run forever.
......So whatcha' makin' next?:) -Scott |
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 08/26/2011 07:08
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freshbeans wrote:
>snip<
......So whatcha' makin' next?:) -Scott
Even though most of the work is done and its working better than my wildest dreams (at least through the 1st 20 pounds), there are some loose ends:
1) Chaff collection - its not bad, but I think I can make it better.
2) Air distribution - I have complete control of the 'spouting' at the start of every roast, but a lot of 'stacking' at the end. The roasts are fine, nice and even but I would like the preserve the 'fountain' and more control throuhout the roast. Should I try blocking some holes?
oldgearhead attached the following image:
Edited by oldgearhead on 08/26/2011 07:13
"Development of flavor, aroma, and body in the coffee bean is a chemical process which requires absorption of a definite number of heat units per pound of coffee-in the shortest possible time and the lowest possible temperature." - Sivetz
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| freshbeans |
Posted on 08/26/2011 07:21
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You could try blocking some of the outer perimeter....focus thru the center, but I think blocking part of one side will likely work better. It will put a high velocity stream up the sidewall.
....It wastes a little heat, but late in the roast....it may be a plus! Good luck,
....or dial a perf? -Scott
Edited by freshbeans on 08/26/2011 07:22
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| dja |
Posted on 08/26/2011 08:12
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1 1/2 Pounder
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Even though most of the work is done and its working better than my wildest dreams (at least through the 1st 20 pounds), there are some loose ends:
1) Chaff collection - its not bad, but I think I can make it better.
2) Air distribution - I have complete control of the 'spouting' at the start of every roast, but a lot of 'stacking' at the end. The roasts are fine, nice and even but I would like the preserve the 'fountain' and more control throuhout the roast. Should I try blocking some holes?
I had the same problem when I first started building my roaster and got it to where I could roast in it.
The beans swell up and that makes them want to start grabbing onto the glass in tha 3.75" tube, then they start to bouncing. that was the main reason for me going to a larger tube.
I did my first 2 pound roast yesterday in my roaster with the 5 inch tube, things were going great, I could control the plume with no prolbem untill the roast was almost done when the beans had expanded and the oils were just about to start poping out. Beans went to bouncing. tried to lower the air to stop it but no luck. Lower air flow just caused a lower bounce.
now the tube had smoke and oil in it from the last roast but I don't think that had anything to do with the bouncing at the end of the roast. That two pounds of beans after they expanded and were flowing as they should of were taking up almost half of the 5 X 16 tube. And there in lies the problem I do belive, I may have to find the pref plate that works in the 6 inch tube and fire it up with two pounds in it and see if it does the same thing.
I do know that the 5 inch tube with 1 3/4 pounds of beans in it I don't see near the amount of bouncing that I do with the 2 pounds.
Sorry I didn't do any video, but you might check some of the first videos on my build an see if the action is the same towards the end of the roast.
Thats my dollars worth.
I pour Iron and roast Coffee Beans 
If life seems normal your not going fast enough Mario Andrette |
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| freshbeans |
Posted on 08/26/2011 09:24
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You could be the first guy on the block with a variable distributor !!!! By turning clockwise, the outer perimeter holes become obstructed as the center holes become 'larger'.
I'm full of ideas (read incomplete ideas) -Scott
(my apologies for the brutal drawing)
freshbeans attached the following image:
Edited by freshbeans on 08/26/2011 09:25
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 09/16/2011 13:14
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Well I've decided the 'spouting-to-stacking' transition really doesn't show up until late into first crack and the beans appear to be evenly roasted, soI'm not going to mess with the holes at this time.
The big news is I got the BMT probe installed and I tried it today. I installed it, away from the center and 3 inches buried in the greens at start up.
I ran the temp controller at 100% for the entire 19 minutes of this 410 gram roast. Instead of turning down the air speed when first crack got going, I increased the speed to cool things down a bit. I've about decided not to bother with ramp/soak, and just use my recycle flap and the blower speed knob for most beans..
oldgearhead attached the following image:
Edited by oldgearhead on 09/16/2011 13:15
"Development of flavor, aroma, and body in the coffee bean is a chemical process which requires absorption of a definite number of heat units per pound of coffee-in the shortest possible time and the lowest possible temperature." - Sivetz
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| freshbeans |
Posted on 09/16/2011 13:56
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How do you like the readings so far? -Scott |
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 09/16/2011 16:40
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freshbeans wrote:
How do you like the readings so far? -Scott
I never did figure out why the ET readings from inside the sink drain pipe were so low (around 350F at end of 12-16 min full city roast). However, this BMT probe, located inside the RC read 400F when first crack started 10 minures into the roast. Yellow-tan (see above photo) at 374F is either a mistake in my recording or my early ROR too a bit steep. Next time I'll set the camera to record both the beans and the temperature, and have it fire every minute or do a video..
"Development of flavor, aroma, and body in the coffee bean is a chemical process which requires absorption of a definite number of heat units per pound of coffee-in the shortest possible time and the lowest possible temperature." - Sivetz
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| dja |
Posted on 09/17/2011 04:14
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1 1/2 Pounder
Posts: 734
Joined: 11/07/2008 09:34
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OGH I see the roaster is alive and well, or anyway it sounds like it is.
I wonder if I could get a sketch of how your latest chaff collection system is put together, I don't mind the smoke as I can blow that outside when its terrible cold in the winter, but that chaff just gets into everything if I do and uncontained roast in the house.
DJA
I pour Iron and roast Coffee Beans
If life seems normal your not going fast enough Mario Andrette |
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| allenb |
Posted on 09/17/2011 15:54
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Fix It Man
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oldgearhead wrote:
freshbeans wrote:
How do you like the readings so far? -Scott
I never did figure out why the ET readings from inside the sink drain pipe were so low (around 350F at end of 12-16 min full city roast). However, this BMT probe, located inside the RC read 400F when first crack started 10 minures into the roast. Yellow-tan (see above photo) at 374F is either a mistake in my recording or my early ROR too a bit steep. Next time I'll set the camera to record both the beans and the temperature, and have it fire every minute or do a video..
On my electric fired fluidbed if I move my ET thermocouple even slightly I can end up in an area with a much lower temperature compared to areas directly above the coils which will be a much higher than average temp. I had to find a sweet spot in between the two extremes to end up with a usable reading. It's hard to get a good number without having a large mixing zone between element and RC.
If possible, shoot us a time/BT profile of the roast.
Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 09/17/2011 17:29
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dja wrote:
OGH I see the roaster is alive and well, or anyway it sounds like it is.
I wonder if I could get a sketch of how your latest chaff collection system is put together, I don't mind the smoke as I can blow that outside when its terrible cold in the winter, but that chaff just gets into everything if I do and uncontained roast in the house.
DJA
_Exploded view,left-to-right:
1 - 200mm 'K' TC
2 - 5/16" nuts
1 - 5/16" washer
1 - 5/16" silicone 'O' ring
1 - 5/16" threaded rod
1 - 3.5" diameter cocktail shaker (body)
1 - Angel Cake center post
1 - 5/16" toggle nut
1 - strainer
David - Of course you could just use the srainer and vacuum the chaff off the top after you end the roast. That works well also..
oldgearhead attached the following image:
Edited by oldgearhead on 09/19/2011 14:05
"Development of flavor, aroma, and body in the coffee bean is a chemical process which requires absorption of a definite number of heat units per pound of coffee-in the shortest possible time and the lowest possible temperature." - Sivetz
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 09/27/2011 09:10
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Posts: 481
Joined: 02/10/2011 15:16
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>snip<
If possible, shoot us a time/BT profile of the roast.
Allen[/quote]
Profile - Here is a list of what I know at this point:
1)The roaster can take one pound of beans to 300F in 4 minutes using 100% heat and 40% recycled air from the RC. However, I choose to roast 410 grams loads and go slower to 300F. So I start at 70% heat and 28% recycled air. This gets me to 300F in 5 minutes, and a drying time of 2 minutes (230-300F).
2 - BMT (K-TC) probe performance - It reads 400F at start of first crack, which is perfecct for me. However, it cannot pin-point the exothermic phase, kineticaly. as the probe in my Z&D can, because there is just too much air in the beans at that point in the roast. However, 440F sure does look like full city. I might try an RTD later on.
Sumatra Gayo Lintang (9-26-2011):
1) Heat 70%, Recycle 28%, - 60F - 300F = T0 + 5 min
2) Heat 90%, Recycle 40%, - 300F - 400F = T0 + 14 min
3) Heat 80%, Recycle, 28% - 400F - 440F = T0 + 19min
Next time I'll ride the air speed control a bit lower in phase 2.
oldgearhead attached the following image:
"Development of flavor, aroma, and body in the coffee bean is a chemical process which requires absorption of a definite number of heat units per pound of coffee-in the shortest possible time and the lowest possible temperature." - Sivetz
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| dja |
Posted on 09/27/2011 09:24
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1 1/2 Pounder
Posts: 734
Joined: 11/07/2008 09:34
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sorry about not answering sooner, I roast outside so I don't really have a chaff problem I let the nebighors keep all they want. I have to 5/8 inch vent holes in the top plate that are suppose to have sliding damper on them I said suppose too. the chaff is blown out thru them and the fill/dump door as it has a small crack under it. now if I am roasting say 1.75 lbs them the chaff may start sticking and build up around the holes and block them off so that there is chaff in the tube when done roasting and cooling down.
David
I pour Iron and roast Coffee Beans
If life seems normal your not going fast enough Mario Andrette |
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 11/30/2011 10:55
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A geek on another coffee forum asked about the cost of my roaster,
so I added it up:
$510. for the parts (note: I over-paid for the brewer)
$66.00 for drill bits and Bandaids.
I should say I called in a favor from a machinist friend for some of the more difficult cuts. Furthermore, David (dja) made a couple of great parts for a very reasonable fee...
I'll try to post some photos of the baffle I'm using to keep the inlet air temperatures in the 150-160F range during the current cool spell..
Happy Holidays!
Edited by oldgearhead on 11/30/2011 10:56
"Development of flavor, aroma, and body in the coffee bean is a chemical process which requires absorption of a definite number of heat units per pound of coffee-in the shortest possible time and the lowest possible temperature." - Sivetz
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 12/21/2011 13:42
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Merry Christmas/Happy New Year!
We traded the traditional Indiana turkey Thanksgiving for tacos on
Myrtle Beach and dinner in Charlestown. The 70F weather was refreshing.
Update to the roaster:
1) Reliability -Its still working fine, nothing has failed.
2) Chaff - I am now able to track my roasts using the manifold TC. So,
I am using only the 20 mesh screen, with no chaff collector or BMT. I simply vacuum off the chaff after the roast cools. The collector was only 50-60% efficient and I had to vacuum some anyway, so this saves a step.
3) RC expelled air/intake air mixer - I have finished the engineering of the ambient air sliding door. I now have a setting for 30F, 40F, 50F, and 60+. This allows me to maintain the inlet air at 150F (+-8F) from the end of drying to finish. I still need to fab the pieces and install it. In the meantime I'm using gaffer's tape.
4) Summary:
Roast loads - 400-500 grams
Drying phase = 3 -5 minutes
Ramp to 1C = 3-4 minutes
Finish = 3-5 minutes
Cooling = 4 minutes
5) Current draw = 2250VA
oldgearhead attached the following image:
Edited by oldgearhead on 12/21/2011 13:43
"Development of flavor, aroma, and body in the coffee bean is a chemical process which requires absorption of a definite number of heat units per pound of coffee-in the shortest possible time and the lowest possible temperature." - Sivetz
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| seedlings |
Posted on 12/21/2011 14:26
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Administrator EMERITUS
Posts: 4295
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Chaff collection is for the birds.
CHAD
Don't put the cart before the horse. Put the horse in the cart and listen to him say "weeeee" all the way down the hill.
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 01/07/2012 08:13
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Posts: 481
Joined: 02/10/2011 15:16
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Last Monday the roaster preformed very well throughout its big test. What was the test? The ambient temperature was 36F. I knew when I completed the design it might be marginal in below 40F ambient temperature. After all, I'm roasting one pound of green coffee with a 1500 watt heat source.
I left the mixing door at the 40F setting and roasted one pound of Sumatra Gayo Lintang and one pound of the excellent A-1 Harrar. The
roast times were 12 and 14 minutes respectively. However, the best news is the intake air screen was 158F at the 4 minute point for both roasts.
(Note: all my roasts are full-city, no oil allowed)
The mixing door works! If I position the door based on the ambient temperature, then the intake air will be between 150F and 160F.
The roaster in now over 6 months old and still roasting 2-4 pounds a week.
This spring (March), I'll remove the blower from its rubber case and see how much tar build-up I'm getting on the inside. However, If the inlet air PVC pipe is any indication, it won't be too bad..
"Development of flavor, aroma, and body in the coffee bean is a chemical process which requires absorption of a definite number of heat units per pound of coffee-in the shortest possible time and the lowest possible temperature." - Sivetz
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| allenb |
Posted on 01/07/2012 12:07
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It's great to hear that recirc is possible without having to use an industrial high temp blower.
I think you are providing valuable research for all of us who want to be able to roast more than a 1/4 lb batch (in a fluidbed) with household 120 volts. I'm hoping many more at HRO will be trying their hand with a recirculating fluidbed build and who knows, with enough folks in the mix there might be further breakthroughs allowing simplified designs.
Keep the posts coming
Allen
Edited by allenb on 01/07/2012 12:32
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 01/08/2012 09:04
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allenb wrote:
>snip<
I think you are providing valuable research for all of us who want to be able to roast more than a 1/4 lb batch (in a fluidbed) with household 120 volts. I'm hoping many more at HRO will be trying their hand with a recirculating fluidbed build and who knows, with enough folks in the mix there might be further breakthroughs allowing simplified designs.
Keep the posts coming
Allen
Allen,
I cannot quite use a standard 20A circuit, unless I run the blower with a varible-autotransformer (16.5A total). The blower pulls 2 amps on the Variac and 5+ amps on the DC drive. I prefer the torque control of the DC drive, therefore I'm running the unit on a 30A 120V circuit pulling 19.5A..
I have roasted a few one-pound batches of decafe with the heat energy fixed at 1200 watts. So 120V/20A is possible, but not important to me at this time....
"Development of flavor, aroma, and body in the coffee bean is a chemical process which requires absorption of a definite number of heat units per pound of coffee-in the shortest possible time and the lowest possible temperature." - Sivetz
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| allenb |
Posted on 01/08/2012 10:15
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To be honest, to be able to do 1/2 or 3/4 lb with household 120-20 amp circuit breakers in a fluidbed would be a huge improvement and well worth the extra work of building in a recirc feature.
Many folks abandon fluidbeds for this reason alone. Two pots of coffee per roast after a while can be a little much.
Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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for you