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Homeroasters.org » BUILDING A ROASTER » Fluidbed Roaster
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Brewer to Roaster..blower question...
oldgearhead
The shaker top is 3.5 inches on its wide end, and 1.5" on its small end.
It has nineteen .15 inch diameter holes:
oldgearhead attached the following image:
dsc_5397_1.jpg

Edited by oldgearhead on 06/15/2011 20:44
 
freshbeans
Great looking video!! Can't wait to see the turbo coupler. That's a stitch! -Scott
 
oldgearhead
freshbeans wrote:
Great looking video!! Can't wait to see the turbo coupler. That's a stitch! -Scott


Oh, it appears in post 36...
 
seedlings
Great work OGH! Can't wait to see a roast in progress. As you say the 500W setting looks like nice circulation, but of course that will change as the coffee beans dry out - you'll probably be down in the 250W range by the end of roast, and have twice the volume of beans... in fact you might throw 3/4 pound of roasted coffee beans in there and see how they circulate.

CHAD
Don't put the cart before the horse. Put the horse in the cart and listen to him say "weeeee" all the way down the hill.
 
danw2002
Great idea OGH, way to think outside the box, i have some experience in Hot tubs and spas, and in fact have my big Spa parts cat. that i can go though...i may just to this for my blower also, instead of a VC...only thing is i wonder how well they will like to be controlled for output speed, as i must be able to control air flow....may have to pull mine off my spa and do some testing....

oldgearhead wrote:
freshbeans wrote:
Hi OGH,
Many of those are one in the same. 70 cfm sounds like the right neighborhood for up to 2 lbs....any idea about pressure? -Scott


Thanks Scott and Allen for responding.
The 1 and 1.5 HP blowers are around 100"H2O. However, I haven't found a vendor that knows if they are AC/DC or brushless, I think I would like it
on a drive.
 
oldgearhead
This is my current list of problems:
1) Half beans are sticking on the glass-to-metal base transistion near the bottom of the RC. This is visible in the video.
2) Way too many air leaks around the manifold bolts.
3) Waiting for the hose to arrive to begin work on the bean exit transport.
4) I need to complete the work on the ofrice dial, because I think the tye-wraps might melt in the heat.
5) June funds are exhausted. I must wait for July 1st check to continue spending money.(My budget is $159.00/mo).

..and on the brighter side:
1) I have control of the beans with either blower speed or a single orfice dial located above the RC. I believe I can set the blower speed for the size of the load, then choke the exit air as the beans loose weight.
2) Mixing looks very good.
3) It looks like I can use recycled air by simply closing the brewer's water door!
4) Blower is AC/DC so speed control is cheap.

What should I buy to seal the leaks in this thing? I was thinking header wrap with a silicone paint seal. Any other ideas?
oldgearhead attached the following image:
dsc_5738_1.jpg
 
seedlings
To seal, I like versachem clear silicone. Oreilly auto sells it too.
http://www.jcwhit...19830.jcwx

I use increased air flow to persuade the 'stuck' beans to participate. You'll have much more flow once the leaks are fixed. It's ok to have a little leakage before the heat, but have NONE after the heat.

CHAD
Don't put the cart before the horse. Put the horse in the cart and listen to him say "weeeee" all the way down the hill.
 
dja
Jim;
the beans that hang on the edge problem, I still have some hanging in my 5 inch tube even after trying to make sure that there was no lip to catch on. They normally will get knocked off by other beans, I have not noticed it making a big enough differance to see half roasted beans in the final product.

Sealing Products; this is an area that everyone will have their own opinoin on, if the leaks are below the roast chamber I would use Red High Temp Silicone Sealant it will take more temperature than the clear. Any areas above the base of the brewer I would use the clear stuff, brand doesn't really matter as its all the same stuff, find the cheapest stuff.

on my roaster when I was running the same size tube that you are I didn't really notice any leaks around the Pyrex to metal joints, if you don't plan to disassemble the tube for cleaning the cracks will fill with coffee oil and chaff particals and will seal up.

An area you maay want to look at if you plan to recirculate air is Chaff Filtering. I ran my roaster in the house a coulpe times, when I needed to test and it was dark and way too cold last winter.

to contain the chaff I simply took a metal dryer hose and hooked it to the top of the roaster and stuck it in a hole cut in a carboard box, that I had covered another opening in the box with a furnace filter, this trapped all the chaff, I'm not gonna tell you about the smoke. I haven't seen what your planning on for the chaff entrapment but if its close to the outlet of the tube and its of a screen wire arrangement it may plug on you giving you some unwanted air flow control.
The two pieces on top of the pyrex tube run a small bead of silicone in a circle, remember a lot goes a long way in a joint like that.

I have a question for you where did you get the thermal couple that you have mounted in the tube just below your preferated cone piece, (shaker top), I think that one like that would work just fine in my roaster. Also let me know what kind of temperatures you see in the air stream from the coil. it is between the heating coil and the bean hopper correct.

go to wally world and buy you one of them cheap egg crate matt thing they sell of putting on your bed and line that lower cabinet with it and it will stop a lot of the blower noise, wish I could do that to mine but its not to be unless I go to a ten inch tube to house the motor.

David
I pour Iron and roast Coffee BeansThumbsUp
If life seems normal your not going fast enough Mario Andrette
 
oldgearhead
Thanks David and Chad for the ideas:
1) I got the 1/4-20 threaded TC from China via eBait. However. Auber has them as well: http://www.auberi...mp;cPath=3
2) Hanging Half-beans - I think my bottom RC 'O' ring need to be 1/16" dia instead of 1/8".
3) There are no leaks in the RC or any of its transistions. They are all silicone 'O' ring sealed. The only leaks are in the manifold.
3) I hope to use this for sound insulation:
http://www.foamby...ramid.html

..and here is a photo of the Z&D/Nesco chaff collector I'm using at the top of my RC.
oldgearhead attached the following image:
dsc_6543.jpg

Edited by oldgearhead on 06/17/2011 17:05
 
oldgearhead
Now to the question of sealing the manifold;
I have two areas of concern: The gap between the 'funnel' and the sink drain. it is a very small gap. It is actually too small (and too hot) for a silicone 'O' ring. I will trry Permatex Red, because I have some. The other areas are around the machine screws that contain the heating element. I sealed these initially with 'Red' plus silicone 'O' rings but quite a lot of air does leak around them. I will re-apply the 'Red' but I think some type of wrap may be needed for mechanical support. May be some 1/2" fiberglass tape??
 
dja
Check out grainger or some of the online supply houses, 3M makes a glass cloth tape for high heat applications and its electrically safe, for non electrical area's you may want to check out the metal duct tape, thats the shiny stuff you see wrapped around the middle of my roaster, it is actually on there not for some hillbilly bling but to hold the two sections of lower half together, strong stuff made from aluminum. If you stop into a heat and air shop and tell em that you only need a couple feet they may just give it to you or sell it for less than what a whole roll will cost I would think.

If you could take a close up shot of how you mounted your coils I would appreciate it, may give me some differant idea if I have to change mine, or for when I cut the lower section down height wise.

Chaff wise I don't then that Z&D had a pound of beans in mind when they designed that chaff trap. let me know how it works out, this has me thinking, in your roaster the ideal situation would be a box inside the cabinet with a large seciton of furnace filter covering the air exit into the cabinet, or run the exhaust air thru a couple baffels, the chaff would stop moving when it hits the corners like getting spun out in a cyclone seperator.

David
I pour Iron and roast Coffee BeansThumbsUp
If life seems normal your not going fast enough Mario Andrette
 
oldgearhead
Thanks David, you reminded me of the glass tape we used as part of the connection wrap on very large (750HP) grain dryer mortors. The nice thing is its available in 1/2" and header wrap insn't. I think good old McCarr has it.

You are right about the chaff screen/chaff collector, it will hold enough for
two pounds of de-caffe and almost a pound of wet-process coffee. However, if the screen doesn't clog too soon, I don't care because I still have my vacuum cooler/cleaner, and I can easily make a deeper chaff collector. Its the screen thats critical in my case. As a test, I did roast one pound of wet-process Thai coffee last week in one of my Z&D's without cleaning the screen and it was fine. However, because it uses an auger the air-flow is very low in a Z&D.

btw - The bottom O-ring in my RC was too small (-153). It needs to be a -340.

OGH
Edited by oldgearhead on 06/18/2011 07:01
 
tra757
Have you determined if your heating element has enough power for your charge?
 
oldgearhead
tra757 wrote:
Have you determined if your heating element has enough power for your charge?

I'm planning to match my charge (300-500 grams) to the final product.
I expect 1450 Watts to easily roast 375 grams. I can do 12 minute, 150 gram, roasts with 500 watts in my 'hacked' Z&D's. My goal is to fill a quart Mason jar with each batch. However, things like cooling and vacuum extraction will keep my charge weight to less than one pound. I could, but I probably won't, add another 1450 watts of heat.

OGH
 
tra757
I am working on the next revision of my heat "turbo". Basically recuperation of excess heat the elements throw off. They sit inside an aluminum section 4" in diameter. The outer pipe is 5" and located right at the elements. The T part has a pipe down to the blower inlet. I have been able to raise my input air about 40% with the same power. I will post when its done.
 
oldgearhead
dja wrote:
If you could take a close up shot of how you mounted your coils I would appreciate it, may give me some differant idea if I have to change mine, or for when I cut the lower section down height wise.

David


David, I tried a photo but it doesn't look any different than yours. Here is what I did:
1) I cross-drilled the manifold like the attched drawing. Next I installed a 1.35"/4-40 machine screw with ceramic spacers and a nut through the hole in the heater element. I arranged the spacers so the element is centered. This 'outrigger' just fits inside the barrel of the manifold and won't allow the coils to touch the wall.
2) Next I attached the wires to the element, threaded the wires through the #12 holes at position 6.75", and pulled the element most of the way into position.
3) Then I installed a 1.5"/4-40 cross-bolt through the #30 hole at position 6.0".
4) Working from the 0" end of the tube I installed the mica sheet (came with the element) around the coils, pulled the element (using the wires) against the machine screw I installed at position 6.0".
5) I started another 1.5"/4-40 machine screw in one of the #30 holes at position 1.75". I had to push the mica down a bit more to get the screw started. This screw was next pushed trough a couple of ceramic spacer, through the slot in the heater element, through some more ceramic, out the other side and secured with a silicone o-ring, washer, and nut..

It was easier to do than to explain.
OGH
oldgearhead attached the following image:
manifold_holes.jpg

Edited by oldgearhead on 06/19/2011 14:52
 
dja
yea I know, I used stainless steel 4/40 all thread and nylon lock nuts when the nylon chrispy fried it locked em in place. the MICA I didn't figure was worth messing with, but I did add insulation around the outside of the tubes before I pushed it all into the 5 inch tube where it resides now.
I pour Iron and roast Coffee BeansThumbsUp
If life seems normal your not going fast enough Mario Andrette
 
oldgearhead
Things are moving right along on this project. I only need to receive three parts and drill 3 holes before I start testing. Here is a copy of my final (120 VAC version) bill of material:
Brewer_Roaster_BOM

+ 1 - Bloomfield 8773 (Junk) Coffee Brewer
+ 1 - Wooden box 30x18x13
+ 4 - 2.5 Castors
+ 4 feet of 2 Schedule 40 PVC pipe
+ 1 - 3 inch Schedule 40 PVC flange
+ 1 - 3 inch-to-two inch Schedule 40 PVC adapter
+ 8 feet of 2.5 flex hose
+ 1 - 2 Schedule 40 PVC T, for bean-evac-to quart jar
+ 2 - Two inch Schedule 40 PVC couplers
+ 1 - 1-1/2 HP spa blower (booted)
+ 6 - T nuts (10-24)
+ 2 - 1 x 3 piano hinges
+ 1 lot machine screws, washers, and nuts
+ 1 - 12x 1.5 Chrome sink drain extension
+ 1 - 3.5 Stainless steel cocktail shaker
+ 1 - Master HAS-043K heat gun element
+ 1 lot Permatex Red silicone
+ 1 lot hookup wire
+ 1 - 14/3 Power cord
+ 1 - 7.75 piece of 35 mm DIN rail
+ 10 - 8 mm DIN terminals
+ 1 - Ice cube relay & socket
+ 1- Nema 4x Enclosure 9x 7 x 4
+ 1 - Extech VFL PID Controller
+ 1 - Tyco 50A SSR
+ 1 - Brew switch (momentary rocker)
+ 1 - Heater stop switch (momentary N.C. push button)
+ 1 - Corning bread tube (3.75 x 14)
+ 1 - 3 x 3 Aluminum turbo hose coupler
+ 1 - Zach & Dani chaff screen and baffle-type separator
+ 3 - Very nice RC parts, custom built by DJA
+ 1 - Lot of silicone o-rings
+ 1 - Box of Band-Aids
___ 1 - Tyco 30A circuit breaker
___ 3 - DIN Ground terminals
___ 1 - Green Pilot light
___ 1 - Main switch (maintained rocker)
___ 1 - Dayton 4X796B motor speed controller
___ 1 - Shop vac hose and wand assembly (1.25 inch) for bean-evac-to-quart jar

Cheers,
OGH
Edited by oldgearhead on 06/23/2011 17:01
 
oldgearhead
tra757 wrote:
I am working on the next revision of my heat "turbo". Basically recuperation of excess heat the elements throw off. They sit inside an aluminum section 4" in diameter. The outer pipe is 5" and located right at the elements. The T part has a pipe down to the blower inlet. I have been able to raise my input air about 40% with the same power. I will post when its done.

Very interesting! I conclude from that information: I should wrap my 1.5" manifold with 'header tape' and then cover that with hot water pipe insulation to boost efficiency...agree?
A test I will do:
1) Measure temperature of bare manifol at 500F air temperature.
2) Cover manifold with 'header wrap and measure again at same point.
3) Add pipe insulation and measure again.

I actually have a piece of foam pipe insulation. If the 'header tape' is very effective, maybe I could use that.

Thanks tra
 
tra757
oldgearhead wrote:
tra757 wrote:
I am working on the next revision of my heat "turbo". Basically recuperation of excess heat the elements throw off. They sit inside an aluminum section 4" in diameter. The outer pipe is 5" and located right at the elements. The T part has a pipe down to the blower inlet. I have been able to raise my input air about 40% with the same power. I will post when its done.

Very interesting! I conclude from that information: I should wrap my 1.5" manifold with 'header tape' and then cover that with hot water pipe insulation to boost efficiency...agree?
A test I will do:
1) Measure temperature of bare manifol at 500F air temperature.
2) Cover manifold with 'header wrap and measure again at same point.
3) Add pipe insulation and measure again.

I actually have a piece of foam pipe insulation. If the 'header tape' is very effective, maybe I could use that.

Thanks tra



Here is a video of a new proto of the Heat turbo. I ran it this morning and was getting a bit over 50 degree increase in the input air.

http://www.youtub...hgpqc0eIiA
There are certainly things that could be done in increase the efficiency but just this simple design works pretty good.
Edited by freshbeans on 06/25/2011 09:50
 
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