I have a confession to make… I hesitated before posting for fear this might irk some of my HRO brothers, who are proficient at roasting and who have generously offered valuable advice to help newbies like me achieve better results with their GC.
After… seeing Ginny’s excellent posts about her experiences with her HotTop… after reading Randy’s exceptional contributions documenting how to use (and how to modify) the HT… and after stumbling upon a used HT for sale on CL recently - I finally took the plunge and purchased a used HT roaster. I have now received the HT, and used it for several roasts. Since I am also the proud owner of a GC, I am in a position to comment about my experiences with both units. Here are some of my early observations to date.
The GC is my very first roaster, and an amazing one at that. Because it is completely manual, it requires a bit of time, some experimentation, and meticulous notetaking to master. After several roasts with the GC, I was able to obtain surprisingly good results using my favorite blend (4 SO beans). Anyone contemplating a high quality roaster in the $500 price range (or less) simply cannot go wrong with the CG. The simpler the roasting profile, the less work and attention are required from the operator. If a more complex roasting profile is intended, more effort and intellectual prowess must be deployed; the operator must attentively manage time and temperature to coach the roast towards its ultimate goal. For those who have time to focus on the roast, and who love to manage this wonderfully complex process, the fairly priced GC is quite simply unbeatable.
A new HT may sell for about twice the price of a new GC. However, based on my experiences with both roasters so far, there is no way that I would expect a HT to produce coffee that is twice as good as that of GC. Since I am new to roasting, the GC still presents a challenge to me; the roasting process is too complex for me to master based on partial indicators like smell, chaff, and bean color. To date, the HT stands out from the GC in three significant ways:
1) The HT is much quieter than the GC: The low noise level allows me to easily detect the most subtle pops and cracks that are created as the roast approaches the most critical first or second cracking stages. When roasting with the HT, there is no need to wear a stethoscope, as I needed to do with CG. Even with a stethoscope, it was not always easy for me to distinguish the delicate sounds of the roasting process from the various mechanical noises coming from the GC.
2) The HT can monitor bean mass temperature: In his detailed posts, Randy illustrates how to make a simple modification to the HT (introducing a heat probe into the churning contents of the hot drum) in order to monitor the temperature of the bean mass. WOW!!! After making this straightforward modification to my used HT, I was amazed to see how the temperature readings on the HT’s display diverge significantly from that of the bean mass; this is especially important during the most critical times of all - on or about the first and second cracking stages. With vital knowledge of the bean mass temperatures, it becomes relatively easy, even for a newbie like me, to slow down and even prolongue the roasting time between the first and second cracks, and to dump of the smoking beans at a precise temperature of my choosing in order to avoid over roasting. Bean temperature and bean colour may be correlated, but a lot of complex maillard reactions occur, and very quickly too, between 399 °F and 439°F. As a newbie, it is much easier for me to reliably judge the state of the roast, during the critical closing seconds of the process, by monitoring bean mass temperature and subtle sounds on the HT, than trying to interpret odors, smoke, and bean color on the GC.
3) The HT can easily replicate roasting profiles: Because the used HT I bought happens to be a programmable unit, it makes it relatively easy for me to repeat a roasting profile. This aspect is important to me, only on those occasions when I’m running low on coffee, and I simply cannot afford to focus mentally on the roasting ritual I so very much enjoy. Further, the programmable feature also seems to help me achieve consistent results from one roast to the next. Even when the HT is going through a complex 8 stage roasting profile, I still enjoy a reasonable amount of manual control over the process. For example, should some subtle pops signal the early arrival of that critical first crack, I can easily slow down the heat rise via the temperature control on the panel, or perhaps slide open the filter screen on the exhaust fan for cooling. Thus, I can prolong the most critical part of the roast by delaying the arrival of those subtle sounds heralding the arrival of the second crack. Further, I can use the bean mass temperature readings to reliably choose the best moment to dump the smoking beans into the cooling tray.
I love my GC roaster. However, as a newbie to the wonderful world of roasting, I find my modified HT roaster easier to use. At this point of my limited roasting experience, the HT is yielding more critical, precise and reliable clues about the complex coffee roasting process than the GC seems capable of doing.
Ciel
Edited by ginny on 05/25/2012 12:33
Ciel... seeking Heaven in a cup with......................................................... EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLKÖNIG/Baratza Vario - GENE CAFE - HOTTOP KN8828P2 - HotTop KN8828B2
I want one of every roaster. I loved my Gene Cafe but I simply did not use it like I did my Hot Top. Rather then let it sit on a shelf I sold it. I love my Hot Top and my Quest3.
The Quest being 100% manual is a great tool and has given me an even higher respect full time roasters. I am getting ready to install a TC 4 that has been sitting on my printer for a couple of months now; with an extra Power Book G4
I can put it to work full time with the Quest 3/ TC 4.
I have really enjoyed using the different roasters I have had over the last darn near 10 years. Funny that the little Fresh Roast that was given to me all those years ago has ended here with all of you continuing or beginning your own coffee journey.
I call that Fresh Roast the gift from hell. Never could I have imagined that I would enjoy my expresso/cafe cremas even more by roasting the greens myself.
I really enjoyed your comparative post.
ginny Edited by ginny on 05/23/2012 15:41
Ala di Vittoria La Valentina,
Solis 5K, Aero Press, Mazzer Mini, Hot Top 8828 B 2K,
Quest 3, TC4C set up to use...
thanks for posting... and I AM irked, and I AM jealous!:BowDown: :)
Just kidding, of course. Excellent comparative post.
I've been considering a HotTop for a while now... But due to unavailability of local support and having to import my greens, it makes no sense for me to upgrade yet...
... However, Upgraditis is a sick, contagious illness and will definitely bite me bad sooner rather than later!
Ginny, thank you for your kind words of encouragement. More importantly, thank you for your remarkable dedication to this wonderful site.
As a newbie to the incredible adventure of roasting, I have found your posts, and that of other committed members here, rich with valuable insights and an ongoing source of encouragement and inspiration.
Ciel... seeking Heaven in a cup with......................................................... EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLKÖNIG/Baratza Vario - GENE CAFE - HOTTOP KN8828P2 - HotTop KN8828B2
congratulations on your award, that must be something new on the forum. they are making a lot of neat changes. I love the roaster banners and new smileys.
I use an old analog Hot Top and love it. bought it new from Sweet Maia's and it still works great. keep them clean and they will run forever.
Update on BMT mod to HT:
It is astonishing to see how the flavor of my favorite blend so quickly transforms in the critical closing seconds of the roast. To my aging eyes, the bean color does not seem to change that dramatically, as the bean mass temperature quickly climbs from 428F to 438F, and then again from 438F to 448F. In reality, the toasting beans are hastily being transformed from an underdeveloped City Roast, to a mature Full City Roast, to an overbearing Vienna Roast. Further, when cupping the diverse roasting results, my palate tells me that the flavor has suddenly mutated from “Good” to “Great”, and then from “Great” to “Good” … within a matter of seconds. Were it not for the new bean mass temperature probe that I recently added to the HT, more often than not, it would be a matter of luck for this newbie to time the dumping of the smoking beans at the optimal moment for achieve peak flavor in my cup.
Ciel... seeking Heaven in a cup with......................................................... EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLKÖNIG/Baratza Vario - GENE CAFE - HOTTOP KN8828P2 - HotTop KN8828B2
... The Quest being 100% manual is a great tool and has given me an even higher respect full time roasters. I am getting ready to install a TC 4 that has been sitting on my printer for a couple of months now; with an extra Power Book G4... I can put it to work full time with the Quest 3/ TC 4.
Ginny, right now I'm having fun exploring the full potential of my HT... and experimenting with various modifications to it. I would be very interested in learning more about the TC4 mod. Have you installed a TC4 on your HT, or do you know of someone who has? Thanks, Ciel
Ciel... seeking Heaven in a cup with......................................................... EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLKÖNIG/Baratza Vario - GENE CAFE - HOTTOP KN8828P2 - HotTop KN8828B2
This Hot Top I have not modded at all, it is stock out the door.
I use it as a daily driver roaster for all of my personal roasts. The Quest 3 is/will be modded beyond the TC 4 but right now it's my also roaster for personal stuff.
I use my second RK Drum for large/larger roasts at the local Farmer's Market when I get there...
So between the HT and Quest 3 I have enough except I am looking at http://koffeekosm...
as a larger batch roaster.
I have given much though to building one myself. I think I am way too lazy now to bother when I have all the roaster stuff I need...
ciel, thank for your continued posts on subjects that always interest our members.
-g
out of the sun
Ala di Vittoria La Valentina,
Solis 5K, Aero Press, Mazzer Mini, Hot Top 8828 B 2K,
Quest 3, TC4C set up to use...
ciel-007 wrote:Have you installed a TC4 on your HT, or do you know of someone who has?
As you might guess, I have a TC4 system on my Hottop, and currently having very good results using RoastLogger software on my PC and RoastLoggerTC4 firmware on my TC4C.
Soon to be available (fingers crossed) is a smart interface board that talks to an Arduino/TC4, the Hottop control board, and the Hottop power board. The addition of this interface board allows you to control the fan and heater on your Hottop from RoastLogger, either manually or using RoastLogger's clever automated roast controller.
Connections are simple to make and require only the addition of a second Hottop control cable (available from Hottop USA) that is identical to the one already in your machine.
There will be more to come on this in a few weeks, so if you are not in a terrific hurry you might want to wait and see if it is something of interest.
In addition to my Hottop D, the new interface board is being tested with RoastLogger on a Hottop B and Hottop P by a couple of very smart people!
... Soon to be available (fingers crossed) is a smart interface board that talks to an Arduino/TC4, the Hottop control board, and the Hottop power board. The addition of this interface board allows you to control the fan and heater on your Hottop from RoastLogger, either manually or using RoastLogger's clever automated roast controller... Connections are simple to make and require only the addition of a second Hottop control cable ...
Thanks Jim, that's great news. I'm looking forward to the upcoming announcement confirming the availability of the new interface board that will allow me to attach the Arduino/TC4 to a HotTop “P” and contol it with RoastLogger. Ciel
Ciel... seeking Heaven in a cup with......................................................... EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLKÖNIG/Baratza Vario - GENE CAFE - HOTTOP KN8828P2 - HotTop KN8828B2
I can attest to folks being out and about. Me and Julie were out hitting the garden centers for loading flower pots all day. Nice weather! Tomorrow the Kamado/egg gets fired up!
ginny
05/18/2013 17:32
Jack, it is quiet today, I think the lovely day has folks out and about.
out of the sun 
thanks for joining.
Marco.....