I posted this on the sweetmaria's forum, but there seems to be a lot more people here, so I'm going to repost it:
I just recently received a Gene Cafe. I've been using the FreshRoast SR500 with mostly success, but I wanted a more even roast and a larger batch size.
I've had one good roast with the Gene Cafe, out of 6. The rest I had to throw away, because they were scorched, uneven, and stinky like burnt plastic (even the good looking roast has this smell).
I am using two 100 gram scoops for each batch. I've scorched two sumatras, two bajawas, and one Ethiopian. The one that worked was the India Poab.
I've tried a few different things, and I'm not getting much success.
I start at 482, wait until they start browning and I hear faint popping, and then I bring it down to 440 to 460 (I've tried multiple ranges in here). Normally at this point they are all about the same color, with the exception of the sumatra which appeared to already have burnt spots at this point, while other beans in the same roast were barely browning.
I wait a few minutes, but at this point, everything is already starting to scorch. The beans still have hard lines on them, not the soft edges I usually see when the roast is going well. Even if I cool it, it's usually too late. It's like half the beans are getting too hot too fast.
Ambient temp is 77F, and I live in a dry area (~50% RH).
What am I doing wrong? I'm getting discouraged, I've already wasted so much coffee and I was getting much much better results from the FreshRoast.
Mr. Newbie: (everyone gets called mr. newbie unless they sign their post)
#1 I can tell you right off the bat the your starting point is way too HIGH, your beans are in the fires of hell, my opinion, not enough greens to match heat, are you weighting your greens or simply using a cup?
#2 always use garbage greens for testing a new machine regardless if it is a new same or new new machine
#3 you have been roasting for some time so I would think the natural thing would be to run a couple of roasts at a WAY, WAY lower starting point.
#4 why would you keep roasting at the same degree if others had failed?
#5 this seems a joke post
#6 try to remember not to cross post because folks get annoyed and feel abused, it is not allowed here or on any forum but we will try to help.
ginny
Edited by ginny on 06/05/2012 10:46
Ala di Vittoria La Valentina,
Solis 5K, Aero Press, Mazzer Mini, Hot Top 8828 B 2K,
Quest 3, TC4C set up to use...
I suggest that you consider increasing the bean mass (say to 250g), and consider a bean drying period (say 250F for 5 minutes) before launching into your regular roasting cycle (say at around 464F). At the onset of 1C, consider dropping the temperature to around 428F... and let us know if there is still a problem.
Ciel... seeking Heaven in a cup with......................................................... EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLKÖNIG/Baratza Vario - GENE CAFE - HOTTOP KN8828P2 - HotTop KN8828B2
Hey newbie (for lack of a name as Ginny mentioned), I answered you over on SM site. Like I suggested there, run the machine up to full temp empty and report back how long it took. this will give you a sort of "calibration" point of how quick your machine gets to temp. Once that is done, do some searches here for GC roast profiles. there are some cool downloads you can get here that have roast logs and temp settings etc. I have gotten nothing but beautiful roasts out of mine so far, so like Ginny said above, it seems like you are pouring it to the coals by hitting the heat so hard right off the bat. Do a little reading in this forum, and you can learn a lot. I had been roasting for about 10 years before I got the GC, so i had some experience, but on different machines. I learned enough here that I didn't ruin any coffee, and it just keeps roasting better now that I have gotten to know the machine. Another thing I will advise is read up on the external cooling that a lot of people do. it is easy and cheap to setup a bean cooler, and it gives you the ability to stop the roast dead when you reach the point you want to roast to and cool really quickly. If you use the built in cooling function on the GC, you can expect the roast to "coast" a little darker before it finishes, and you have to get a feel for how much it is going to coast to hit your target. That takes a little practice as well. Enjoy.
Mr. Newbie: (everyone gets called mr. newbie unless they sign their post)
Done. My name is actually Adam, but most people on the internet (and even some of my good friends IRL) call me synic.
#1 I can tell you right off the bat the your starting point is way too HIGH, your beans are in the fires of hell, my opinion, not enough greens to match heat, are you weighting your greens or simply using a cup?
Just using the provided cup.
#2 always use garbage greens for testing a new machine regardless if it is a new same or new new machine
Will do.
#3 you have been roasting for some time so I would think the natural thing would be to run a couple of roasts at a WAY, WAY lower starting point.
I'm just following the directions it came with, and the directions on SweetMaria's. I'm not sure how I was supposed to know that there was some other fiddling I needed to know about until someone told me, which you just have.
#4 why would you keep roasting at the same degree if others had failed?
#5 this seems a joke post
See my answer to #3. Not everyone is a pro roaster like yourself. I'm not trying to joke around here.
#6 try to remember not to cross post because folks get annoyed and feel abused, it is not allowed here or on any forum but we will try to help.
Hey newbie (for lack of a name as Ginny mentioned), I answered you over on SM site. Like I suggested there, run the machine up to full temp empty and report back how long it took. this will give you a sort of "calibration" point of how quick your machine gets to temp. Once that is done, do some searches here for GC roast profiles. there are some cool downloads you can get here that have roast logs and temp settings etc. I have gotten nothing but beautiful roasts out of mine so far, so like Ginny said above, it seems like you are pouring it to the coals by hitting the heat so hard right off the bat. Do a little reading in this forum, and you can learn a lot. I had been roasting for about 10 years before I got the GC, so i had some experience, but on different machines. I learned enough here that I didn't ruin any coffee, and it just keeps roasting better now that I have gotten to know the machine. Another thing I will advise is read up on the external cooling that a lot of people do. it is easy and cheap to setup a bean cooler, and it gives you the ability to stop the roast dead when you reach the point you want to roast to and cool really quickly. If you use the built in cooling function on the GC, you can expect the roast to "coast" a little darker before it finishes, and you have to get a feel for how much it is going to coast to hit your target. That takes a little practice as well. Enjoy.
I suggest that you consider increasing the bean mass (say to 250g), and consider a bean drying period (say 250F for 5 minutes) before launching into your regular roasting cycle (say at around 464F). At the onset of 1C, consider dropping the temperature to around 428F... and let us know if there is still a problem.
Ok, I will do this. 482 really did put them into the fiery pits of Hell!
please let me say I am not a pro roaster that's one of the reasons I am here and help support all home roasters.
synic, the only way we can be is pro active, a tinkerer, a fool and clearly
not a direction/manual reader. sure read the manual first so you know how to turn the darn thing on after that all bets are off.
when your first roast failed, move that heat back, use more beans, use less beans, read what folks here have to say about their Gene Cafes. please feel free to download the GC profiles from this site.
synic, I did not mean to be egregious with you and clearly I can off that way but you gotta take those darn beans by the horns and ride um till they roast the way you want.
EXPERIMENT is the operative word. rely on you experience with your other roaster and play around with the greens. for the sake of all who love great greens go buy a sack of garbage.
I have some older greens I will sell you since I do a yearly weeder principal with my greens. I was just about to put some up for sale. sign up for the bulk buy notice and when they come up for sale you will receive a notice.
stop burning those beans...
ginny
back to chair
Ala di Vittoria La Valentina,
Solis 5K, Aero Press, Mazzer Mini, Hot Top 8828 B 2K,
Quest 3, TC4C set up to use...
I know that you were simply trying to follow the GC manual. I just now took another quick look at the GC manual, and in all fairness to you, that manual is not very helpful for a newbie.
I spent a couple of months trying to master the GC, and found it to be quite challenging in terms of achieving great roasts.
Ciel... seeking Heaven in a cup with......................................................... EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLKÖNIG/Baratza Vario - GENE CAFE - HOTTOP KN8828P2 - HotTop KN8828B2
I can tell this is probably going to be one of those hobbies where it seems like you are saving money, but that's all lies :)
Actually, depending on where you were getting your roasted beans, you might be surprised at how much you can actually save, once you master the art. I have estimated that by roasting my own, I would be saving around $1,000 in my first year of roasting.
Ciel... seeking Heaven in a cup with......................................................... EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLKÖNIG/Baratza Vario - GENE CAFE - HOTTOP KN8828P2 - HotTop KN8828B2
Unlike the HotTop, there is no need to wait for the GC to cool down before the next roast. With the CG, you can roast to your heart's content. Should the pyrex drum be too hot to handle during refill, simply use gloves...
Ciel... seeking Heaven in a cup with......................................................... EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLKÖNIG/Baratza Vario - GENE CAFE - HOTTOP KN8828P2 - HotTop KN8828B2
In order for us to help you, we need some help from you.
As stated earlier, how long does it take your cold, empty roaster to reach 482F? This provides us a benchmark to get a handle on your set up.
Also, keep good notes to share with us:
Are you pre-heating the drum? How Hot? How long?
What time do the beans turn yellow?
What time does first crack occur?
What time does second crack occur? (If you go that far)
How long is the overall roast?
How are you cooling? In drum or externally?
Now I'll disagree with some earlier posts.
Run a bean warming stage at 300F for 5 minutes. 250F will not warm to the center of the beans. Don't try 350F either. Nothing good happens at 350F - you'll over roast the outside of the beans and have crappy coffee.
Always roast the same exact amount. Every time. Do not roast 250 grams until you know the beans quite well. A chaff-heavy bean may clog the exit vents in the drum and may start a chaff fire. I always roast 226 grams (half pound so you'll have an even batch left at the end of each lot).
Buy a kitchen scale and eliminate that variable.
You may have a very hot, snappy roaster or your line voltage may be high.
If you're burning beans, don't roast back-to-back. Allow the roaster to come to a complete cold state before starting again.
Have fun!
John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
In order for us to help you, we need some help from you.
I will try to get a good portion of this information tonight, and if I still have an account on this forum when ginny and I are done fighting, I'll let you know how it goes :)
I can attest to folks being out and about. Me and Julie were out hitting the garden centers for loading flower pots all day. Nice weather! Tomorrow the Kamado/egg gets fired up!
ginny
05/18/2013 17:32
Jack, it is quiet today, I think the lovely day has folks out and about.
ginny
05/18/2013 17:31
sbonder
thanks for joining us...
JackH
05/18/2013 15:28
Quiet here today.
zombie coffee
05/17/2013 11:02
ricksroasters
thank you for taking time to join us...
back to chair
even though it belongs to stripe kitty...
Marco.....