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Homeroasters.org » BUILDING A ROASTER » Fluidbed Roaster
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how to a pid
imaroaster
As I've posted elsewhere I am pondering ways to control my heat on my roaster and came was wondering the steps and equipment needed to add. a pid
Amazon has pid controlers for $25 dollars and up and ssr for $9 and up. Will these work or what? I've looked around on the forum and haven't really found a how-to.

John
 
ginny
I had a Rosto that was pi'd
but I can't remember...

I am sure I have a picture of it. I will look around.

I am also sure someone here knows what to do.

-g

tiki

just pulled this from the web:

http://www.ambexr...ntrol.html
What you're reading is my slow descent into insanity...
 
imaroaster
This got me thinking

http://makeprojec...BM9BUS2Nzo

I know that it isn't a coffee forum (hope it doesn't break any rules BBQ grill)but doesn't the principle apply as well as the equipment.
Just asking.

John
Edited by ginny on 07/27/2012 18:15
 
imaroaster
Also Ginny thanks forty the insightful read.
 
tamarian
Best PID controllers for roasting are those with multiple ramp/soak segments, where you can profile the entire roast from start to finish. The basic models have a single value setting, and you simply change the value manually during the roast. The latter is good as means to control too much heat without profiling.

The ones widely used here and works with roasting software like Artisan, are the Fuji PXR and PXG, with PXG having more resolution of segment times in seconds rather than minutes.
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
http://www.varietalcafe.com
allenb
+ 1 on Tamarian's suggestions.

There's been reports of some of the low cost PID controllers sold on EBAY having too little documentation making it very difficult for all but very experienced control geeks to get things set up and dialed in. If you want support in the way of picking up the phone and all PDF documentation I would stick with known major brands. My preference is the Fuji line for ease of setup and for being able to get support on the phone and/or email with people who regularly deal with coffee roasters.

Also, as Dan has mentioned in previous posts, make sure you oversize your SSR by a margin and use a heatsink.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Dan
I second the Fuji PID nomination. I've installed Love, Omron, and Fuji PIDs. All have very similar programming menu functions, but the Fuji PXR3 has the advantage of ramp/soak and lower cost, too.
 
http://www.intactamerica.org
imaroaster
I looked up the Fuji and the price is like $150or soShock. That is more than my whole roaster.

But I found this on ebay, http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=330723008919&index=2&nav=SEARCH&nid=97273173671 would this work?

John
 
Dan
I don't know. The PXR4 is the same as th PXR3, but in the next size larger enclosure. I could not find that part number in their online catalog, but the model number is a code. What we know is that it is 48x48mm enclosure, input is C, has one output, output is relay type, and the second 'Y' is an unknown power supply input.

I suggest writing the company and asking them what the PID's specs are, specifically, the input voltage.

The manual: http://www.instru...manual.pdf
 
http://www.intactamerica.org
oldgearhead
I have a PID controller on my roaster, but I don't use the PID function.
I would suggest the controller you buy has manual output control.

If its choice and service you are after, may I suggest:
http://www.auberi...
 
imaroaster
oldgearhead wrote:I would suggest the controller you buy has manual output control.


I hate to sound stupid, it's easy because I am, but what does this mean, manual output?

I was actually thinking that I could use a controller to have a set temp and them just adjust the air flow manually. I'd just watch my exiting air temp. If I just want to set my heat can I go with an inexpensive unit? I could go with a rheostat but for 30 amps the cost is right up there as well.

One more thing is that I have a mechanical relay, would I really need a SSR.

John
 
Dan
OGH's "manual" control confused me, too. Why install a PID if you are going to use it like a thermostat.

Mechanical relays will work fine. It will eventually wear out from the repeated make/breaks, but it should last for years. You'll have to listen to it clicking away. Set your cycle time to about 40 seconds to reduce wear and tear on the relay. SSRs. I use them on my PID controlled ovens at work mostly because I can't find 50A 4-pole
 
http://www.intactamerica.org
imaroaster
I would use a thermostat if it would work. Someone gave me a thermostat from an oven but it has a 32 degree swing in it and it is rated for 250 degrees so I would have to find a spot to attach it that would work.

A pid seems easier, unless there is another way.
 
allenb
Dan wrote:

OGH's "manual" control confused me, too. Why install a PID if you are going to use it like a thermostat.

Mechanical relays will work fine. It will eventually wear out from the repeated make/breaks, but it should last for years. You'll have to listen to it clicking away. Set your cycle time to about 40 seconds to reduce wear and tear on the relay. SSRs. I use them on my PID controlled ovens at work mostly because I can't find 50A 4-pole


Dan,

I'm assuming you meant 4 seconds for reduced wear and tear on the relay and not 40?

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
allenb
John, may I suggest an alternative to using a PID controller?

I've been using my TC4 rate of rise meter lately with fully manual control and haven't looked back for both my drum and fluidbed roasters.

I lay out a profile in time/RoR and just tweak the power level throughout the roast to follow it. It would obviously require you to buy or build a TC4 rate of rise meter (not expensive) and to acquire a means of varying power level. You could hopefully find a used variac on ebay for a reasonable price.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Dan
I use 40 minutes on our ovens at work. Granted, that might be too slow for a small roaster. The PID I have is older and the shortest cycle time is 2 seconds, I think, and that is plenty fast enough. You'll have to experiment for what's most effective in the long run.
 
http://www.intactamerica.org
oldgearhead
imaroaster wrote:

oldgearhead wrote:I would suggest the controller you buy has manual output control.


I hate to sound stupid, it's easy because I am, but what does this mean, manual output?

I was actually thinking that I could use a controller to have a set temp and them just adjust the air flow manually. I'd just watch my exiting air temp. If I just want to set my heat can I go with an inexpensive unit? I could go with a rheostat but for 30 amps the cost is right up there as well.

One more thing is that I have a mechanical relay, would I really need a SSR.

John

SSR -Temperature controllers are available in models with two different outputs: DC - for use with an SSR, and Relay contact. Because an SSR can deal with the high current of an electrical appliance faster and cooler than a relay, SSR's have been the device of choice for heating appliances since the early 1970's.
Manual control - Most, not all, temperature controllers can be operated manually.
The percentage of time the controller will be on is set by the operator. In other words, if I want to set a 1500 watt heating element for 1000 watts
I would set to manual out at 66%.
This is how I roast my coffee.
1) T=0.0 min. (drying) - 1000 watts with 17% recycle air from RC.
2) T=4.0 min. (Ramp to FC) - 1350 watts with 40% recycle air from RC.
3) T=8 min. (finish) - 1160 watts with 17% recycle air from RC.
4) T= 10 -14 min. (kill heater)
I'm actually doing simple, manual, RoR by watching both a timer and the bean mass temperature. For drying I want my beans to experience 230F
BMT for a little over two minutes. Next, I want to get to first crack in about 4 minutes with an RoR of close to 1DF/sec. Then when first crack gets going, I will back the input energy down to slow the roast. Finially, I keep the BMT advancing throughout the roast.
I am a retired Electrical Controls Engineer and I prefer open-loop control for roasting coffee...
 
oldgearhead
...a modern temperature controller plus a
DC SSR has advantages over a 2KVA varible-autotransformer:
1) You have a display of the temperature.
2) The cost is much less.
 
imaroaster
There are these all over Ebay:
http://www.ebay.c...6rk%3D2%26

Would these work? I'm really not interested in fancy profiles at this point. (Then again I wasn't interested in roasting either at one point). If I can just set and hold the temp I will be happy.

I also looked at a variac but the size and price made this an unattractive option.

On a crazy note a friend of mine asked if a stove top knob would work. Does anyone know how a range top works? I could get the parts at a salvage yard for next to nothing. Just a thought I have to look into.
 
oldgearhead
If you can't afford the Fuji, look at this one, it can do either open-loop (%power) or closed loop (P,PI,or PID) control. Furthermore, it works with either SSR or mechanical relay.
http://www.auberi...cts_id=106
Yes, a stove top reostat would control the heater, but it won't display a temperature, its not as repeatable, or precise as a controller/SSR combo.
Do you have a temperature probe?
Edited by oldgearhead on 07/29/2012 17:21
 
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freshbeans
09/29/2014 09:38
sdanderson21 Welcome to HRO!!

freshbeans
09/29/2014 07:08
Happy National Coffee Day! (U.S.)....and a happy day to everyone else as well

allenb
09/28/2014 17:08
Now remember, no dirt biking, rock climbing or bungee jumping till you're fully recovered! Only BBQng and coffee roasting. beach

ginny
09/28/2014 13:28
Thanks you guys... cross fingersb

smico
09/28/2014 03:35
I am glad it all went well G.

ginny
09/28/2014 01:32
The hospital coffee was actually not bad at all though a nice cafe crema was nowhere to be found.. rockon

allenb
09/26/2014 13:10
sthbnd35 Whats roasting? BBQ grill

JackH
09/26/2014 08:32
welcome2 arkroast to Homeroasters!

Koffee Kosmo
09/25/2014 19:57
Welcome all new members - Thanks for joining HRO

allenb
09/24/2014 19:22
Welcome all new members! Happy Roasting! BBQ grill

allenb
09/24/2014 19:19
Howdy G! Welcome back from the hospital. Like Jack, I'm wondering how things went and if you brought your own coffee and brewer to the place? Hope you're mending

JackH
09/24/2014 15:23
Welcome shortyjacobs Thanks for joining!

JackH
09/24/2014 15:20
Good to hear from you Michael. Glad that you are enjoying the site! woohoo

JackH
09/24/2014 15:18
Ginny, Wonderful to hear you are home! How was the hospital coffee? pouring

michealgreen
09/24/2014 11:32
So glad I found this place!