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Brewer to Roaster..blower question...
oldgearhead
Top  #1 Print Post
Posted on 04/29/2011 2:24 PM
I'm just starting to get some stuff together to build my fluid bed roaster.
I will be using a Bloomfield Airpot Brewer to house everything, so it will have a very nice, commercial kitchen, appearance.
I think I want to use a 5" x 14" Pyrex tube for the main part of the RC.
From what I've been reading here, vacuum cleaner motors are the choice of many of you 'expert' fluid bed builders. However, I'm looking at hot tub blowers. How many beans can I stir in my glass RC with 70 cfm from a 2 inch outlet??
No oil on my beans...
 
JETROASTER
Top  #2 Print Post
Posted on 04/29/2011 2:40 PM
Hi OGH,
Many of those are one in the same. 70 cfm sounds like the right neighborhood for up to 2 lbs....any idea about pressure? -Scott
Edited by JETROASTER on 04/29/2011 3:01 PM
 
allenb
Top  #3 Print Post
Posted on 04/29/2011 5:41 PM
This is a superb idea using the commercial brewer body as a roaster body.

You've got the main power input and wiring terminals already on-board, control switches, most likely has threaded studs in various places for attaching things, rubber feet etc...

Looking forward to seeing this come together!

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
oldgearhead
Top  #4 Print Post
Posted on 04/29/2011 7:10 PM

Quote

freshbeans wrote:
Hi OGH,
Many of those are one in the same. 70 cfm sounds like the right neighborhood for up to 2 lbs....any idea about pressure? -Scott


Thanks Scott and Allen for responding.
The 1 and 1.5 HP blowers are around 100"H2O. However, I haven't found a vendor that knows if they are AC/DC or brushless, I think I would like it
on a drive.
No oil on my beans...
 
JETROASTER
Top  #5 Print Post
Posted on 04/30/2011 9:28 AM
OGH,
Looks like the smaller ones (1-1.5hp) are lamb/ametek style motors built into abs housings. Those will be AC with carbon brushes.
The 2hp look like AC brushless motors w/ detached impellers.

IMO, the smallest of them will likely suit your needs. Post a shot of what you've got in mind....Nice idea with the Bloomfield! -Scott
 
oldgearhead
Top  #6 Print Post
Posted on 04/30/2011 10:22 AM
This type is what I've been interested in because I think it will fit in the
water tank spot in my enclosure (Bloomfield 8773).

http://cgi.ebay.c...52&var
Edited by oldgearhead on 04/30/2011 10:26 AM
No oil on my beans...
 
oldgearhead
Top  #7 Print Post
Posted on 05/23/2011 3:59 PM
Brewer to Roaster Project

There will be two modules. Module 1 consists of the skin of an old Bloomfield stainless steel air pot brewer. The top of the old brewer will be modified to hinge up and down and the old brew head ring will be removed. Then the ?heat funnel? will be installed in the stainless steel base, and after a hole is cut out of module 2 (Blue Wooden Box), module 1 will be bolted to module 2.

Module 2 will house these items:
1) One 1-1/2 HP in-line (rubber boot) spa blower.
2) One lot of 2 inch PVC air supply tubing
3) One lot of 1.62? id aluminum heater tubing.
4) One Master Heat Gun HAS-043K element.

Features:
? The top of the roast chamber will have a Zach & Dani?s chaff catcher and screen.
? Cooling will be done in the RC.
? Beans will be evacuated via air and ?J? tube.
? Heat recycling will be tried.
? Yes it will be 220 VAC (in case I need to add another heater.
oldgearhead attached the following image:
dsc_5291.jpg
Edited by oldgearhead on 05/23/2011 7:02 PM
No oil on my beans...
 
dja
Top  #8 Print Post
Posted on 05/23/2011 8:48 PM
trim the four rods so they stick out about 1/4" and use some Acorn nuts on them and the threaded end will be hidden.

Looks good, keep up with the pictures.
I pour Iron and roast Coffee BeansThumbsUp
If life seems normal your not going fast enough Mario Andrette
 
tra757
Top  #9 Print Post
Posted on 05/24/2011 5:45 AM
Looks cool.

I am a little concerned about your heater though. I am using two 1440 watt heating elements heating about 30 CFM and it is barely enough for a 12 ounce charge. I think if you are going for a 1 pound roaster you should think about a 5kw heater and 10kw if you are shooting for a 2 pounder. You will need to power it with 220v as that will over tax a 120v 20 amp circuit. Your base is large enough for an electric dryer element, which would prolly be the easiest for your heating needs. Keep those pictures coming.
 
greencardigan
Top  #10 Print Post
Posted on 05/24/2011 6:36 AM
5kW of heating will be plenty for 2 pounds if you have your airflow right.
 
oldgearhead
Top  #11 Print Post
Posted on 05/24/2011 8:14 AM

Quote

dja wrote:
trim the four rods so they stick out about 1/4" and use some Acorn nuts on them and the threaded end will be hidden.

Looks good, keep up with the pictures.


David, thanks for the tip. However, I have lots of work to complete before that step, and I may need to contract some more skilled labor to make the top transition to 3.0" O.D. (hint). But I need to finish the rough work on the brewer top first.

Thanks again,
JRS
No oil on my beans...
 
oldgearhead
Top  #12 Print Post
Posted on 05/24/2011 8:22 AM

Quote

tra757 wrote:
Looks cool.

I am a little concerned about your heater though. I am using two 1440 watt heating elements heating about 30 CFM and it is barely enough for a 12 ounce charge. I think if you are going for a 1 pound roaster you should think about a 5kw heater and 10kw if you are shooting for a 2 pounder. You will need to power it with 220v as that will over tax a 120v 20 amp circuit. Your base is large enough for an electric dryer element, which would prolly be the easiest for your heating needs. Keep those pictures coming.


Thanks tra. My design load is 720 grams. and 220 VAC. I want to simply fill 2 quart 'Mason' jars at the end of each roast. In fact I fill 2 quart jars now with my Z/D's plus cooler, but it takes an hour.
Are your elements side-by-side or in-line?
oldgearhead attached the following image:
roasterstation2.jpg
Edited by oldgearhead on 05/24/2011 8:24 AM
No oil on my beans...
 
seedlings
Top  #13 Print Post
Posted on 05/24/2011 10:19 AM
Love the design!

Side-by-side or in-line won't make a difference as far as heat transfer. Mine are side-by-side.

You'll need good control of air flow - what's the plan for controlling the spa blower?

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
JETROASTER
Top  #14 Print Post
Posted on 05/24/2011 10:41 AM
I think it's a blast! ...I like creative repurposing in general, but coffee related is even better.

.....Just because I have a few screws loose;
If you have any intention of wrapping this up in one module...
Flip the whole thing(brewer) upside down....blower goes in the water tank location....heat goes in the brew head location....transition to RC.....cut out the current base for the exhaust port.
....I'll shut up now. Great design! -Scott
Edited by JETROASTER on 05/24/2011 11:20 AM
 
oldgearhead
Top  #15 Print Post
Posted on 05/24/2011 12:18 PM

Quote

seedlings wrote:
Love the design!

Side-by-side or in-line won't make a difference as far as heat transfer. Mine are side-by-side.

You'll need good control of air flow - what's the plan for controlling the spa blower?

CHAD


Chad, thanks for that info. I plan on putting the heater inside a 1.62" id aluminum tube, and leaving room for an additional (in-line) heater.

The blower runs pretty smoothly (unloaded) down to 25 VAC on a varible auto-transformer. I may try a router controller later on in the development, or maybe a 2HP DC drive. It's a brush motor, so maybe it will run on DC? Furthermore, I have orfice control of both the air supply inlet (2.0" PVC) and the hot air exit at the top of the RC (3.0" aluminum tube).
This blower really rocks!
oldgearhead attached the following image:
blower.jpg
Edited by oldgearhead on 05/24/2011 12:26 PM
No oil on my beans...
 
tra757
Top  #16 Print Post
Posted on 05/24/2011 8:18 PM

Quote



Are your elements side-by-side or in-line?


http://forum.home...post_29026

Follow the link and check out details of my roaster.

Let me know if you have more questions about my heater. I think it is the toughest part of getting a roaster you can depend on.

Tim
Edited by seedlings on 05/25/2011 7:45 AM
 
dja
Top  #17 Print Post
Posted on 05/25/2011 1:14 PM

Quote

oldgearhead wrote:
Module 2 will house these items:
1) One 1-1/2 HP in-line (rubber boot) spa blower.
2) One lot of 2 inch PVC air supply tubing
3) One lot of 1.62? id aluminum heater tubing.
4) One Master Heat Gun HAS-043K element.



OGH

Line three bothers me, I think that you should reconsider using aluminum tubing, You have to remember those elements are capable of a thousand degrees each. Aluminum is a great or as great as copper at transfering heat and cold.

If it was me I would look for some stainless steel tubing or go to a muffler shop and get a hunk of tail pipe that has been swagged on one end so that you will have a slip together joint which will make it a lot easier to install the heating elements into.

Another item that you are going to have to consider is what are you and how are you going to wire them. you will need some wire with High Temp Insulation. enough to at least get the leads out of the tube.

The above is somethings that I would look at very closely, I take it that with that type blower you are going for a stright inline from blower inlet to roast chamber setup.

What would work great with that big bottom cabinet is get a muffler shop to bend you a 180 and then get two short sections that have been swagged put the coils in the two short sections, and if you used two 180's you could keep it all in a small package insulate the heck out of it.

only problem I see is them wires how to get em out of the tubes.

I have a idea that just hit me let me do some tinkering, I'll get back to you on this subject in a day or two.

I like the setup its going to build a really nice roaster from the looks of things.

David
I pour Iron and roast Coffee BeansThumbsUp
If life seems normal your not going fast enough Mario Andrette
 
oldgearhead
Top  #18 Print Post
Posted on 05/25/2011 2:36 PM
David,
I was planning to simply cross-drill the manifold in a few places and bring the wires out about an inch behind the element. I also was not planning to bolt the element to the manifold, but to rig the element with ceramic spacers, so it can't touch the mica-insulated manifold wall, install the element, and then install cross-bolts to stop for/aft movement. Also I will cover the heated portion of the manifold with high-temp insulation.

I have a couple of feet of high temp wire here someplace.

My inlet air tubing (2" PVC) will have 2 ell's in the lower module and pull atmosphere from the top rear area of the brewer head.

I need 1.62" to fit over my 'funnel' neck. What are your concerns with aluminum? Do you think it might burn? (I'm working out the air flow proving switch right now. Power is withheld from heater until air is proven).

'Funnel' as seen by the HC:
oldgearhead attached the following image:
dsc_5397.jpg
Edited by oldgearhead on 05/25/2011 4:19 PM
No oil on my beans...
 
dja
Top  #19 Print Post
Posted on 05/25/2011 5:34 PM
heat transfer, how far from the blower to the coils, when you shut the blower off the heat might transfer down the tube to the blower.

Its probably just me being overly cautious.

Do you have a Metal Supermarket close to you, they carry all sizes of chrome moly tubing that will just telescope together. their a good place to pick up short pieces of tubing and stuff.

David
I pour Iron and roast Coffee BeansThumbsUp
If life seems normal your not going fast enough Mario Andrette
 
oldgearhead
Top  #20 Print Post
Posted on 05/25/2011 7:58 PM
David,
Thanks for the Metal Supermarket tip. I'm about 100 miles from 4 of them. But, I'm not happy with the limited choice of length at McMaster-Carr. When I get a couple of more things pinned down I will call in an order to MS. Now I'm thinking 14.6" of 4130 tube 1.75" x .065".
Edited by oldgearhead on 05/25/2011 7:59 PM
No oil on my beans...
 
allenb
Top  #21 Print Post
Posted on 05/25/2011 8:36 PM
For what it's worth on aluminum for roaster applications,

The stock element in my German made Sirocco fluidbed is housed in an aluminum tube with no mica board between the nichrome and tube. The distance between nichrome and tube wall is .25" and the nichrome gets very bright orange. The plastic fan housing connects to the aluminum tube although there is a thin silicone gasket separating the two pieces. I can't see anyone ever having a problem with aluminum unless they were going to use it to house a heat knife element hitting temps that would cause the aluminum to glow which would be pretty well out of roasting temps.

Obviously if there were a fan failure and no thermal fuses or high limit safeties it would be preferable to have something with a higher melting or distortion point.

I'll have to admit I like using stainless also but for those who can't fabricate parts out of it at home nor have the $ resources to hire a shop I wouldn't keep aluminum off the list.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
oldgearhead
Top  #22 Print Post
Posted on 05/27/2011 2:09 PM
I can report a little progress. I got the blower installed.
I have a question for the group:
Has anyonre tried chrome sink steel for a heat manifold? It's the
perfect size for the Master Heat Gun 1.4KW element..
OGH
oldgearhead attached the following image:
dsc_5399.jpg
No oil on my beans...
 
JETROASTER
Top  #23 Print Post
Posted on 05/27/2011 2:20 PM
Yes, I used 2 lavatory drains for the Max Heatgun MH-1.
1 for the RC inlet, 1 for the exhaust port. I'm also using the chrome piping for the exhaust line.
No problems with heat, and it mates with a whole bunch of easy to find stuff. Looks great! -Scott
 
oldgearhead
Top  #24 Print Post
Posted on 05/27/2011 2:32 PM
Thanks Scott for the quick answer? Will it cut okay with a Ridgid pipe
cutter? How does it drill?
No oil on my beans...
 
seedlings
Top  #25 Print Post
Posted on 05/27/2011 2:49 PM
I'm curious how much heat you'll be able to recycle in the PVC? What's its operating temp rating? From my experience small increases in inlet air temperature can be a big help roasting. As an example, when I roast in 40F weather and a strong wind blows in the garage I can watch the ET drop by 5 degrees.

100F to 150F inlet air temps would show fantastic results.

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
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