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PID'ed Gas-fired fluid bed roaster
tamarian
Top  #76 Print Post
Posted on 10/21/2013 1:26 PM
Updates:

1. First time my baby was put to the test for HomeBarista's espresso blend competition, I placed 4th and 6/7th. (Jim placed me 4th, Sherman had me on 6th and 7th tie). My first roasting competition, ever! First place is also a fluid bed and homeroasters.org member, EndlessCycle/Marshal.

2. I've just switched from PID on BT to PID on exhaust temperature, found it much smoother and requires no regulator adjustment for different charge/load.

3. I expected frequent refilling of propane, but 30 lbs later, the tank has barely changed weight. I forgot to weigh it at the beginning, bust since 5 roasts ago it is still at 25kg. Couldn't find weight markings on the tank, so I'll ask the propane dealer how much it should weight empty.
tamarian attached the following image:
brazilbe20oct2013exhaust-small.png
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
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allenb
Top  #77 Print Post
Posted on 10/21/2013 8:55 PM
Congratulations Tamarian!! You're doing something very right to be in the top tier in that level of competition.

Interesting you using exhaust for PID input. This actually makes sense as it would smooth out the jerky ripple effects around first crack and probably allows the PID settings to better apply to the whole roast.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
tamarian
Top  #78 Print Post
Posted on 12/07/2013 7:04 AM
Thought I'd share this picture before I empty the bucket. This is a 5 gallon paint bucket, full of chaff!
tamarian attached the following image:
img-20131207-wa0000.jpg
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
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tamarian
Top  #79 Print Post
Posted on 12/07/2013 7:17 AM
For those using Fuji PXGR/G PID controller, Artisan 0.7 is out, and has added SV curve option. This is quite handy for tuning PID, and I manage to further tune my settings to a very satisfying degree. It is a bit lagging during the drying phase, but spot on afterward.

forum.homeroasters.org/forum/attachments/last-detune-dec-2013.png
tamarian attached the following image:
last-detune-dec-2013.png
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
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allenb
Top  #80 Print Post
Posted on 12/07/2013 9:28 AM
Nice looking chaff! Do you find you have to tap debris off the screen now and then to keep full flow or does it self maintain?

Interesting news on the Artisan .7 tracking SV. Have you gone back to controlling off of bean temp instead of exhaust?

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
tamarian
Top  #81 Print Post
Posted on 12/07/2013 12:44 PM

Quote

allenb wrote:

Nice looking chaff! Do you find you have to tap debris off the screen now and then to keep full flow or does it self maintain?

Interesting news on the Artisan .7 tracking SV. Have you gone back to controlling off of bean temp instead of exhaust?


Thanks Allen. No problem with the screen, but the inlet to the bucket gets clogged, so I need to expand it a bit.

And yes, I did go back to bean temp for control. When I did some small batches, the difference was way off between exhaust and BT, compared to 1 lb.
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
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allenb
Top  #82 Print Post
Posted on 12/07/2013 9:32 PM
Your results are very similar to mine when attempting to use other than BT for control input. I tried for a while using pre - roast chamber ET which allowed very smooth control but I was forever changing ET ramp profiles on my Fuji to adjust for varying charge weights and coffee densities which took all the fun out of it. This coupled with the fact that I didn't find any benefit in the cup made me go back to the slightly jerkier bean temp control input.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
tamarian
Top  #83 Print Post
Posted on 12/11/2013 8:25 AM
A local roaster friend, who has a 25 kg Probat, and 2 Joper sample roasters, needed to run a specific cupping profile on just 100g samples that he personally processed, and can't risk ruining them by not controlling the profile on his Joper. So he asked me if I can do it, i.e. run the same PID controlled profile on 3 different processing methods of the same bean, 1 dry, 1 wet, 1 honey. I replaced and re-positioned my TC, and used a much longer one, bent it, inserted it much lower than the current lTC location, secured it with a plier, and ran a test roast on 100 grams.

It worked beautifully. Same time/temp for drying and FC, perfectly matching the designed profile without any wobble or overshoot, and nailed a uniform roast of those 100 grams. My smallest batch before was 250g.

I'm actually thinking of keeping the new TC setup, to reduce my own sampling size!
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
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tamarian
Top  #84 Print Post
Posted on 12/15/2013 12:38 AM
I was reviewing my Youtube channel stats, and found I got an embedded link from Neal Wilson's blog! Neal is the author of the open source Typica roasting software, SCAA/Roasters Guild instructor.

http://appliedcoffeetechnology.tumblr.com/post/67499454005

Quote

I?d like it if drum roasters started to come with a sample trier similar to what?s seen here (not as a replacement to the traditional sample trowel but as an addition to it) as this looks a lot easier and potentially faster than pulling samples for profile development cupping than using the sample trowel (faster sample pulling means the ability to pull more samples in a tighter range with the obvious benefits to the product development process).


Thankfully, my clumsy one-hand mobile video taking while roasting and pulling samples didn't get in the way of demonstrating my sample pulling gizmo :-)
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
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tamarian
Top  #85 Print Post
Posted on 12/15/2013 6:39 AM
Oops here it is http://appliedcof...7499454005
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
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tamarian
Top  #86 Print Post
Posted on 01/11/2014 3:16 AM
For those interested in the flame sensor implementation, note that the flame sensor itself need to be protected from the heat, either by distance, fan or insulation. Just had a lengthy roast session and by 4th roast, the alarm went on for no reason. It turns out that it failed due to the heat. It was too close to the heat chamber. I probably needed to just hold it an inch away from the glass window.

The good news is that when it fails, it sounds the alarm. That's better than the other way around.
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
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MaKoMo
Top  #87 Print Post
Posted on 01/11/2014 5:37 AM
Wa'il, is the flame sensor you use the one of DFRobot

http://www.dfrobo...tEsW_27vJE
Edited by JackH on 01/11/2014 8:45 AM
 
tamarian
Top  #88 Print Post
Posted on 01/11/2014 6:45 AM

Quote

MaKoMo wrote:

Wa'il, is the flame sensor you use the one of DFRobot http://www.dfrobot.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=195#.UtEsW_27vJE ?


Very similar to it. Here's the specifc one I use: http://www.amazon...ame+sensor
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
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tamarian
Top  #89 Print Post
Posted on 01/14/2014 12:21 AM
I have reduced the length of pipe holding the vacuume motor, since I decided against adding an electric element. Took a nice picture for my Instagram stream:

forum.homeroasters.org/forum/attachments/shorter.jpg

Now prototyping a square roast chamber to roast 5kg, also based on RoasterRob design.
tamarian attached the following image:
shorter.jpg
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
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allenb
Top  #90 Print Post
Posted on 01/16/2014 3:19 PM
With a 5 kg, you're hitting the big league. Looking forward to photos of the big guy!

When's the grand opening of Wa'ils Hand Crafted Coffee's and Bakery? pouring

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
tamarian
Top  #91 Print Post
Posted on 01/16/2014 10:13 PM
Looks like I'm heading into that direction. There is no specialty coffee roasted locally here, in a city with over 7 million population, and all coffee shops import their stale coffee from overseas. I'll start home-based and work with a few coffee shops, and see if it hits off.
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
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fransg
Top  #92 Print Post
Posted on 01/16/2014 10:27 PM
That's exciting and very well prepared, best of luck!!
HG One & Londinium I -- Mazzer Mini E & Rocket Giotto -- La Pavoni's -- Fracino Roastilino with PXG4 - Artisan - Tonino
 
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allenb
Top  #93 Print Post
Posted on 01/17/2014 9:24 AM
That is exciting! Make sure you keep us up to date with how this goes and especially a detailed thread on the big roaster build.

Now you better break everyone in slowly with your introduction of fresh coffee to the masses. Might be a shock to the senses!

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
MaKoMo
Top  #94 Print Post
Posted on 01/17/2014 4:16 PM
I am worried about this development. Hope we will not loose you here, because you have to roast day and night for your customers;)

Over 7 million. Hm. Go for it!
 
JETROASTER
Top  #95 Print Post
Posted on 01/17/2014 4:38 PM
If you need some help, I love to travel. Beautiful machine....wide open market. Go for it!! -Scott
 
allenb
Top  #96 Print Post
Posted on 01/17/2014 7:35 PM
Ok, lets do some math here, 7 million folks, if 10% get hooked on Wa'il's specialty coffee and swear off of the stale swill, that comes to 700,000 lbs per week and with a 5 kg roaster it'll take.... Ok, timeout you'll be upgrading to a large bank of 1 bag fluidbeds and have to hire around 50 employees so you better ease into the marketing strategy slowly! Shock

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
tamarian
Top  #97 Print Post
Posted on 01/17/2014 9:11 PM
Thanks for all the support and interest!

Here's the commercial roaster that I'd really like to get, the Chinook, if things get serious and production excedes my roaster's capacity: http://www.coffee...er.com.au/ They currently don't sell outside New Zeland, but told me they may in a few months. The design looks sound, and they do 1 kg sample model, 6kg model and a full bag model. The only other manufacturer I know of is Neuhaus Neotec, but I get the impression they are into brute-force roasting. I'm open to drums as well, along with fluid beds.

I've set a target of 1,000kg a month to take this from home-based to a commercial location. A 5 kg roaster working 2 hours a day, 5 days a week should be enough, considering other work involved such as cupping/blending/packaging/marketing/delivery. Once it gets busier than that, it is time for stage two, a commercial/industrial location with facilities for bigger machines, staff, lab, retail space.

The hardest part to figure out, for me, is the supply chain sourcing specialty greens in incremental quantity. One bag at a time, then 5 bags at a time, then who knows.
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
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allenb
Top  #98 Print Post
Posted on 01/17/2014 9:58 PM
The Chinook looks like a mini Neotec and has some good looks! Hopefully if they do begin selling outside their current area the price is reasonable.

On shipping small quantities of green. There should be some creative solutions where you can get your small quantity of green coffee to share a shipping container ride with other shipments from the same area heading to your main shipping hub (hopefully). I would talk to a few shipping companies to pick their brains.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Airhan
Top  #99 Print Post
Posted on 01/18/2014 11:55 AM
I don't know much about sourcing green coffee, but Coffee shrub (http://www.coffee...nformation) is Sweet Maria's companion site where you can order large quantities of coffee, that might be a good place to start.
Aaron
"Grind it like it did you some great injustice!"D.L.Clark
 
JETROASTER
Top  #100 Print Post
Posted on 01/18/2014 12:58 PM
I'm with Allen. Talk to some cargo people. Look for situations where you might piggy-back on a container. Your proximity to Africa could be a benefit.
Good luck, -Scott
 
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