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Homeroasters - Home Roasting Coffee Community » DATALOGGERS - CONTROLLERS - RATE OF RISE METERS » Dataloggers/Controllers/Rate of Rise Meters

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SSR & Random Fire SSr
CharcoalRoaster	#1 Posted on 06/02/2019 2:02 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 634 Joined: April 13, 2012	SSR question here -- These are the ones I currently have in my build. Are they suitable? https://www.ebay....2856886716 25A for my AC fan and 40A for my heater. Thanks!


renatoa	#2 Posted on 06/02/2019 2:55 PM
Administrator Posts: 2588 Joined: September 30, 2016	I am using the 25A version for 1300W ([email protected]), without heatsink, barely warm. Already warned that you should expect to find 12A triac inside, and probably 16A for the model labelled 40A, so don't plan to use them for more than 1/3 of advertised current rating. What motor type has a fan to be controlled using such SSR? What control method? PAC/ICC ? IO3 PWM is for DC motors only I think...


CharcoalRoaster	#3 Posted on 06/02/2019 4:15 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 634 Joined: April 13, 2012	It's an AC vac motor fan. So are you saying I cannot use the labeled 40A on my 30amp breaker for my heater (240v @4500w)?


mg512	#4 Posted on 06/02/2019 4:35 PM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 189 Joined: March 04, 2018	Quote CharcoalRoaster wrote: It's an AC vac motor fan. So are you saying I cannot use the labeled 40A on my 30amp breaker for my heater (240v @4500w)? For the heater: In theory you can use it, IF the SSR is actually what it says on the label. If you're getting one from eBay that is far from guaranteed. Since you'd be pulling almost 20A, it might be a good idea getting an SSR from an official distributor in this instance, even if it costs a little more. For the motor: If you're planning to use this with a ZCD for speed control (as opposed to simply on-off control), then no, you cannot use a regular SSR. You need a "random-fire SSR".
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CharcoalRoaster	#5 Posted on 06/02/2019 6:30 PM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 634 Joined: April 13, 2012	Ok good to know -- what are some brands of trustworthy SSRs?


renatoa	#6 Posted on 06/03/2019 1:09 AM
Administrator Posts: 2588 Joined: September 30, 2016	Aren't these what we call random fire SSR? The schematic inside is simple, an moc 40xx optotriac and a BTA 12/16-600-800V triac, check here at 4:30 https://youtu.be/...ifyY?t=270 Nothing in the schematic that could suggest a ZCD feature... [email protected] is less than 20A. For such task I would rather buy myself components I can trust, i.e. separate triac (BTA41-600BRG-$4) and optotriac (50c) and build the SSR on a small board. Edited by renatoa on 06/03/2019 1:16 AM


mg512	#7 Posted on 06/03/2019 5:03 AM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 189 Joined: March 04, 2018	Quote CharcoalRoaster wrote: Ok good to know -- what are some brands of trustworthy SSRs? I wouldn't worry about brand, just make sure you buy them from a reputable distributor, e.g. Digikey, Mouser, Farnell, Arrow. If you get them from a random eBay seller, you can't know for sure if what's inside matches what's on the label. Not an issue with other things, but with mains voltage and high current, it's better to be safe than sorry. Quote renatoa wrote: Aren't these what we call random fire SSR? The schematic inside is simple, an moc 40xx optotriac and a BTA 12/16-600-800V triac, check here at 4:30 I don't know about these specifically, but I was under the impression that most SSRs were the zero-crossing variety, unless explicitly stated that they are random-fire. You can try, of course. Quote renatoa wrote: For such task I would rather buy myself components I can trust, i.e. separate triac (BTA41-600BRG-$4) and optotriac (50c) and build the SSR on a small board. I would strongly advise against this. Do not mess with mains electricity if you don't know precisely what you are doing. It is much safer to buy an SSR from a reputable source.
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renatoa	#8 Posted on 06/03/2019 6:44 AM
Administrator Posts: 2588 Joined: September 30, 2016	Fotek surely aren't zero crossing. And here they are "the most" That's because the next similar SSR, Panasonic brand, from a reputable seller, Farnell, is 10x more expensive... so only industrial projects consider them, we the hobbyists are using Chinese stuff, with the necessary margin. Isn't supposed that we are knowing precisely what are we doing ?


CharcoalRoaster	#9 Posted on 06/03/2019 6:44 AM
1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 634 Joined: April 13, 2012	Thanks once again everyone -- I found some new Crydom 120v 25A random fire SSRs for fan control and a couple new crydom 240v 50A zero cross for the heaters. I have a new one to install a a backup in case of failure.


Wiz Kalita	#10 Posted on 06/08/2019 12:33 PM
Newbie Posts: 49 Joined: August 06, 2018	Quote renatoa wrote: Aren't these what we call random fire SSR? The schematic inside is simple, an moc 40xx optotriac and a BTA 12/16-600-800V triac, check here at 4:30 That's a Fotek SSR-25DA, which is zero-crossing. The 25VA is the random fire version. http://www.fotek..../SSR-1.htm http://www.servo....s_adju.pdf Edited by JackH on 06/08/2019 4:54 PM


renatoa	#11 Posted on 06/08/2019 2:33 PM
Administrator Posts: 2588 Joined: September 30, 2016	Then is a Fotek fake/clone, because in the video schematic, and what I dismounted myself there is no element to perform zcd function. The difference can be seen here: https://i.stack.i.../YeUTf.png The SSR from the video use a simple optotriac to fire the main triac. This page don't tell anything about VA series as being random fire, but variable resistor controlled in AC: http://www.viira1...ek/ssr.htm The resistor symbol is engraved on the SSR case, and the input pins have sine wave symbols, check attached. renatoa attached the following image: Edited by renatoa on 06/08/2019 2:46 PM


mg512	#12 Posted on 06/08/2019 5:21 PM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 189 Joined: March 04, 2018	Quote renatoa wrote: This page don't tell anything about VA series as being random fire, but variable resistor controlled in AC: http://www.viira1...ek/ssr.htm That very page does, however, seem to say that the entire series has "Zero Cross Trigger Method". This kind of confusion is precisely why I recommend (a) using reputable brands and distributors, where you can actually find an accurate datasheet, or (b) avoiding the entire ZCD / random-fire SSR route altogether.
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NewBean	#13 Posted on 06/08/2019 6:48 PM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 54 Joined: May 31, 2019	Ok this is what I'm building, am I correct or off base 1-https://www.amazo...amp;sr=8-5 2-https://www.mouse...K6L1K8TA== Edited by JackH on 06/09/2019 2:49 PM


mg512	#14 Posted on 06/09/2019 3:33 AM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 189 Joined: March 04, 2018	The D2425-10 should be the instant-turnon aka random-fire variant, so you should be good. You will still need a ZCD if you go this way. May I suggest we move the random-fire SSR and ZCD discussion to a separate thread? I think given the amount if interest, it very much deserves its own discussion.
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NewBean	#15 Posted on 06/10/2019 7:16 PM
1/4 Pounder Posts: 54 Joined: May 31, 2019	Guess we're moving this topic to a new section, was not able to find one so here goes..


renatoa	#16 Posted on 06/11/2019 2:28 AM
Administrator Posts: 2588 Joined: September 30, 2016	Would be nice to have here the posts from the other thread too, no idea if this forum allows moving posts from a thread to other...


JackH	#17 Posted on 06/11/2019 2:54 AM
Administrator Posts: 1809 Joined: May 10, 2011	Yes, the posts can be moved and I did it. Also moved to the dataloggers area. ---Jack KKTO Roaster.

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